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 Realistic 40K

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Tenkaranpu
La chienlit c'est lui!


Messages : 2317
Date d'inscription : 08/12/2010
Localisation : Quelque part, en train de regretter Araxyrie, sniff sniff...

MessageSujet: Realistic 40K   Mar 2 Fév 2016 - 16:08

Je sais plus qui c'est qui disait que pour que 40k soit réaliste et Fluff, il faudrait complètement réviser le système de jeu et qu'il avait la flemme de même tenter la chose tant ça lui semblait colossale... ou quelque chose comme ça.


Pimpcron a écrit:

40K: Realistic Rules Part 1

   Posted by Pimpcron at May 1, 2015

Warhammer+40k+came+into+existence+a+mere+year+after+the+_8050900dc243a2faaa73b2f334e5adff

Classy Angry Marine thinks it can’t be done.



Pimpcron explores some rules changes that might make this game more realistic.

Hello all! Your closest friend and confidant Pimpcron is here to discuss the realism behind our rules. I know that some could say that if you play a game that includes Orks, a God Emperor, and ancient murderous robots, realism may not be what you’re going for. But for many of us, this fantasy world of the Grimdark is very real and very cool. The mounds of neat fluff they have written is what draws a lot of into the game; and our battles are meant to represent a small cross section of a much larger battle. So why don’t the rules reflect that?

For the most part, I am ok with the rules of 40k. I have seen other games with pretty clever rule sets, but overall this game suits me fine. But occasionally I will be fighting a bloody battle with a hated enemy, and suddenly a conversation like this springs up:

“Okay, I get a cover save.”

“What? Why?”

“Oh, well because the rules say so. I know it doesn’t really make practical sense in this situation, but that’s what the rules say.”

Did you see that? Going out the window just then? Yeah, that was immersion. Obviously nobody can make a rulebook that covers every possibility, and some things have to be boiled down in order for the game to progress. Some things invariably will get lost in translation no matter what setting you are in. But here are few things that have popped up in our games that we have always threatened to House-Rule into existence. We have never done it, BUT WE THREATEN!
Changing Wounding Order
6234_bloodthirster.chaos_.daemon.fire_sword.great_unclean_one.imperial_guard.imperium.khorne.lasgun.majesticchicken.nurgle.paul_dainton.sword_

For once, I have nothing to say. This is just a really neat picture.

You roll to Hit, then see if you would wound the target, then see if his armor protects him. I may be splitting hairs here, but it seems to me that if you are going for realism you would do it this way: Roll to Hit, take your Saving Throws, then Roll to Wound. Kind of like, okay X amount of wounds got through your armor, can you withstand them through being tough? This would obviously change a lot of things like Rending, but that’s because this game was built to work the way it does and not my way. If they were to make this change, they would have to rework a lot of rules.
Blast Cover Saves



Blast weapon cover saves should always come from the center of the blast marker. I have a friend who cringes any time a blast weapon shoots through a window, wounds people, and they get a cover save from the wall that the weapon successfully shot through. He always remarks, “If the shot made it through the window, the wall clearly cannot block the damage. The weapon fires a shell, you can’t block part of it, if a wall blocks the shell, then nobody gets wounded. But if it goes through the window and doesn’t scatter, the wall didn’t block it.”
Reserve Assaults

Okay, so you have an elite team of infiltrators who have been trained or possibly bred for this exact job. They go ahead, undetected in front of the rest of the army. They happen upon the enemy, and suddenly forget how to charge. It takes them a full turn to remember how; or work up the nerve? Or how about the elite squad who successfully outflanked the enemy and are coming at them from the side, and also get stricken with the same one-turn amnesia? Yes, I get why they got rid of outflank assaults once they gave us the possibility of a 12-inch charge. But my fix to that would be a 6-inch charge if you are assaulting from infiltrating or reserve. I would gladly take that over not being able to assault at all, like some idiot.
Shooting Into Close Combat
74941e584c265fa147294f060bd5a1c9

First of all, we play a game where troops are expendable above all else. Commissars literally shoot people in the head for running away. Ork blood will fill the battlefield a foot deep. Tyranids just eat their dead troops and use it to make more. Why can’t I shoot into assaults? I know what people would do immediately, lock an enemy unit in combat with a cheap unit and bombard the blob with weapons. Or tarpit an enemy unit with Terminators and barrage the blob with AP3 weapons, leaving the Terminators relatively unharmed. WHY NOT?! That is exactly the type of thing they would do in the fluff. If this was real combat, that would be a completely viable option. I say you can shoot into assaults, but any misses auto-hit your own people and you must then roll to wound them, etc. And to make it more fair, you MUST have the blast templates cover 50% your models and 50% enemy models.
Assaulting From Transports

So every time your Superhuman Soldiers try to get out of a tank in order to charge the enemy, they do a Benny Hill style act where two or three people get stuck in the door at the same time? I say that you can assault from all transports. But you can assault from Assault vehicles and Open-topped vehicles without disembarking; thus negating Overwatch. Dark Eldar would cry with joy if this were the case. Then drink the tears because they are kind of an icky people.
Now for Full Disclosure

I know that some of these would drastically change the game, and most of the questions I have asked are rhetorical. Some of these are easy to see why they don’t implement them with the current rules. But it really comes down to what you want out of the game and how much you are willing to sacrifice to speed it up.

Look out for Part 2 next week!

So what are your thoughts on these rules? Like them? Hate them?

What are your House Rules you have implemented?

Want to witness my slow descent into madness first-hand? Check out my blog at www.diceforthedicegod.com






Pimpcron a écrit:

hoosing Outflank Sides

Years of training, genetic engineering, hundreds of battles under their belt, and they still stumble onto the field like they were just looking for the bathroom. Why can’t I just tell my scouts to flank the right side or left? Why is it such a crap shoot?

“Oh, so that’s where all the fighting is. I thought I heard some commotion.” –Scout Sergeant Gomer Pyle
Throwing Grenades
warhammer_40k_frag_grenade_by_matsucorp-d3ao6df

Grenades: hazing the new guy since the 40th Millennia.

The rules involving throwing grenades leads me to believe that grenade manufacturing has been outsourced to some terribly incompetent hive world where they make crappy stuff. Why else would only one guy get to throw his grenade when the entire squad is equipped with them? I imagine that these grenades are just as likely to blow up in your hand as they are to blow up where they’re thrown. That’s why everybody is like, “Let Jimmy the new guy throw his grenade” and everybody snickers, waiting for Jimmy’s fingers to go flying in every direction. Either that or “Throwing Stuff” wasn’t a required class in boot camp. And the armies of the 41st Millennium are so terrible at throwing they actually have to assigned a Minor League Softball pitcher to every squad just to throw their grenades.
Delaying Reserves

If I can call friendly units over to help me, why can’t I tell them to hover in the background for a while until I want them tactically? You roll for them to come in, but have no way of contacting them back to say, “hold up”. It’s like that friend who you just got off the phone with 30 seconds ago, and now they won’t answer their phone. Did they throw it in the river after they got off with you? Apparently your reserves did. I say that once you make the roll for them to come in, you can choose to bring them in on any turn after.
Line of Sight to Flyers
warhammer_40k_hive_tyrant_by_yorikasudon-d5d0ipc

“Hide your kids, hide your wife . . .”

How is it, that a Flying Monstrous Creature can be safe from assault, but still be so close to the ground as to hide behind a wall while “flying”? I am a big fan of Flying Monstrous Creatures and have many of them in my Nidzilla army. But even I say that it seems a little unfair. I say, if they are in the air, Line of sight can always be drawn to them and the only cover saves they get would be Jinks. I also like the idea of FMCs getting put on flying vehicle stands or something when up in the air.
Weapon Skill Value

How is it that an ancient Demi-god with weapon skill 10 has the same chance to hit in close combat as the guy who trained just a little longer than you? I have always thought that Weapon Skill should range from 2+ to 6+ To Hit. Not 3+ to 5+. Or at least give someone rerolls to hit if you’re not onboard with the 2+ To Hit. I always feel like close combat isn’t nearly decisive enough. Often times they just drag on and on.
Now for Full Disclosure (Again)

I know that some of these would drastically change the game, and most of the questions I have asked are rhetorical. Some of these are easy to see why they don’t implement them with the current rules. But it really comes down to what you want out of the game and how much you are willing to sacrifice to speed it up.



Pimpcron a écrit:

hoosing Outflank Sides

Years of training, genetic engineering, hundreds of battles under their belt, and they still stumble onto the field like they were just looking for the bathroom. Why can’t I just tell my scouts to flank the right side or left? Why is it such a crap shoot?

“Oh, so that’s where all the fighting is. I thought I heard some commotion.” –Scout Sergeant Gomer Pyle
Throwing Grenades
warhammer_40k_frag_grenade_by_matsucorp-d3ao6df

Grenades: hazing the new guy since the 40th Millennia.

The rules involving throwing grenades leads me to believe that grenade manufacturing has been outsourced to some terribly incompetent hive world where they make crappy stuff. Why else would only one guy get to throw his grenade when the entire squad is equipped with them? I imagine that these grenades are just as likely to blow up in your hand as they are to blow up where they’re thrown. That’s why everybody is like, “Let Jimmy the new guy throw his grenade” and everybody snickers, waiting for Jimmy’s fingers to go flying in every direction. Either that or “Throwing Stuff” wasn’t a required class in boot camp. And the armies of the 41st Millennium are so terrible at throwing they actually have to assigned a Minor League Softball pitcher to every squad just to throw their grenades.
Delaying Reserves

If I can call friendly units over to help me, why can’t I tell them to hover in the background for a while until I want them tactically? You roll for them to come in, but have no way of contacting them back to say, “hold up”. It’s like that friend who you just got off the phone with 30 seconds ago, and now they won’t answer their phone. Did they throw it in the river after they got off with you? Apparently your reserves did. I say that once you make the roll for them to come in, you can choose to bring them in on any turn after.
Line of Sight to Flyers
warhammer_40k_hive_tyrant_by_yorikasudon-d5d0ipc

“Hide your kids, hide your wife . . .”

How is it, that a Flying Monstrous Creature can be safe from assault, but still be so close to the ground as to hide behind a wall while “flying”? I am a big fan of Flying Monstrous Creatures and have many of them in my Nidzilla army. But even I say that it seems a little unfair. I say, if they are in the air, Line of sight can always be drawn to them and the only cover saves they get would be Jinks. I also like the idea of FMCs getting put on flying vehicle stands or something when up in the air.
Weapon Skill Value

How is it that an ancient Demi-god with weapon skill 10 has the same chance to hit in close combat as the guy who trained just a little longer than you? I have always thought that Weapon Skill should range from 2+ to 6+ To Hit. Not 3+ to 5+. Or at least give someone rerolls to hit if you’re not onboard with the 2+ To Hit. I always feel like close combat isn’t nearly decisive enough. Often times they just drag on and on.
Now for Full Disclosure (Again)

I know that some of these would drastically change the game, and most of the questions I have asked are rhetorical. Some of these are easy to see why they don’t implement them with the current rules. But it really comes down to what you want out of the game and how much you are willing to sacrifice to speed it up.



Vous en pensez quoi ?



Personnellement, je suis d'accord avec certains points.

_________________
 


Les Primarques devaient être des exemples frappant d'hommes guéris de la souillure de la corruption. L'énergie du Warp non corrompue coulerait en eux comme elle coulait par l'Empereur lui-même, les fortifiant et leur conférant des pouvoirs comme en possédaient les anciens chamans (...) Employant ses pouvoirs psychiques, l'Empereur les localisa petit à petit et retrouva chacune de ces créations originales qui furent réunis avec les chapitres Space Marines créés à partir de leurs empreintes génétiques. Ils ne semblaient pas avoir été touchés par le Chaos (...) [Mais] En fait, leur apparence physique était décevante, nombre de Primarque furent souillés par leur contact précoce avec le Chaos.

- Realms of Chaos : The Lost and the Damned, page 174 et suivantes, extrait.

Russ avec de l'ADN canin, les Primarques crées avec l'aide des dieux du Chaos... la saga de l'Hérésie d'Horus de la BL est écrite par des hérétiques... ♪

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